On this page
- Quick answer
- Quick facts
- Family overview: the two members
- Properties and modifier lines
- Family Comparison: Heroic Tragedy vs Undying Hate
- Overview: how Timeless Jewels work
- Seed and Socket Workflow
- Eligibility: what a Timeless Jewel affects
- Desecration Risk (Unstable Desecration)
- How to use a Timeless Jewel
- Outcomes by situation
- Build usage
- Alternatives
- Valuation: use, sell, or hold
- Risk and failure cost
- Community evidence
- Problems and direct answers
- Video walkthrough
- Media gallery
- Connected content
- Patch history
- Sources and verification
- Changelog
Quick Facts
- Item Type
- Family
- Rarity
- Unique
- Use Cases
- Passive Conversion · Keystone · Desecration · Build Enabling
QUICK ANSWER
Quick answer
A Timeless Jewel is NOT a Time-Lost Jewel - different item, different mechanic.
Seed (the number) decides what Notables in radius become; the name (leader/faction) decides what Keystones become.
Undying Hate can be Desecrated up to 4 times with Preserved Craniums, but Desecration makes it Unstable and raises the chance it is destroyed.
Builds that want a specific Keystone conversion (Heroic Tragedy) or a Tribute-scaling Abyssal build (Undying Hate), and players willing to roll seeds for perfect Notables.
Confirm the seed and name against a planner or the live client before buying; the same jewel name with a different seed is a completely different result.
Assuming old 0.1/0.2 conclusions still apply, and assuming a fixed desecration destruction percentage - only an increasing probability is officially described.
QUICK FACTS
Quick facts
- Family
- Timeless Jewel (Historic)
- A family of Unique jewels; current members are Heroic Tragedy and Undying Hate.
- Limited to
- 1 Historic per character
- Only one Historic (Timeless) jewel can be active in a passive tree at a time.
- Radius
- Very Large (1500)
- Both members use the same Very Large radius, so socket location decides which nodes are conquered.
- Seed
- Decides Notables
- The number on the jewel randomly determines Notable transformations in radius.
- Name
- Decides Keystones
- The leader/faction name at the end of the flavour line decides Keystone transformations.
- Drop sources
- Olroth D4 / Vessel of Kulemak
- Heroic Tragedy from Olroth, Origin of the Fall at Difficulty 4; Undying Hate from Vessel of Kulemak.
ITEM FAMILY
Family overview: the two members
The Timeless Jewel family currently has two members. Both conquer passives in a Very Large radius but with completely different themes and drop sources.
Because only one Historic jewel is allowed per character, choosing between them (or between seeds of the same jewel) is a permanent build decision.
Kalguur
Heroic Tragedy
Remembering (100-8000) songworthy deeds by the line of Vorana / Medved / OlrothConquers passives in radius for the Kalguur. Seed 100-8000 decides Notable outcomes; the leader name (Vorana, Medved, or Olroth) decides the Keystone the in-radius Keystones become. Drops from Olroth, Origin of the Fall at Expedition Difficulty 4.
Abyssal
Undying Hate
Glorifying the defilement of (79-30977) souls in tribute to Amanamu / Ulaman / Kurgal / Tecrod / KulemakConquers passives in radius for the Abyssals. Seed 79-30977 decides Notable outcomes; the faction name decides the Keystone. Small passives become Tribute; Notables scale with Tribute. Can be Desecrated up to 4 times with Preserved Craniums (Unstable Desecration). Drops from Vessel of Kulemak.
PROPERTIES
Properties and modifier lines
- Item class
- Jewel (Timeless)
- A Unique jewel base type that cannot be obtained as a non-unique version.
- Limited to
- 1 Historic
- One Historic jewel per character across the whole passive tree.
- Radius
- Very Large (1500)
- A fixed large radius; socket placement selects which nodes are conquered.
- Historic (Hidden)
- Historic
- Marks the jewel as a Historic Timeless jewel; conquered nodes cannot be further modified by other radius jewels.
- Heroic Tragedy - seed
- Remembering (100-8000) ... by the line of Vorana/Medved/Olroth
- Number decides Notables; name decides Keystones.
- Undying Hate - seed
- Glorifying the defilement of (79-30977) souls in tribute to (5 factions)
- Number decides Notables; faction name decides Keystone; Desecration makes it Unstable.
DATA TABLE
Family Comparison: Heroic Tragedy vs Undying Hate
Side-by-side of the two Timeless Jewel members. Specific Keystone names should be confirmed against the live 0.5.4 client.
| Aspect | Heroic Tragedy | Undying Hate |
|---|---|---|
| Faction | Kalguur | Abyssal |
| Seed range | 100 - 8000 | 79 - 30977 |
| Keystone source | Leader name (Vorana/Medved/Olroth) | Faction name (5 Abyssal Liches) |
| Small Passive | Travel nodes gain Ward; other small nodes gain Ward | Small passives become Tribute (+5 each, +3 attribute Tribute) |
| Notable | Transformed by seed into Kalguur notables | Transformed by seed into Tribute-scaling Abyssal notables |
| Extra modification | Divine rerolls seed + name | Preserved Cranium Desecration (up to 4) + Divine rerolls |
| Destruction risk | None (no desecration system) | Unstable Desecration: increasing destruction probability |
Both are Limited to 1 Historic and share the Very Large radius. The decisive difference is theme: Kalguur defensive attribute conversion (Heroic Tragedy) versus Abyssal Tribute scaling and Desecration (Undying Hate).
OVERVIEW
Overview: how Timeless Jewels work
A Timeless Jewel is socketed into a normal allocated Jewel Socket. Every small and notable passive inside its Very Large radius is 'Conquered' and replaced with a themed version. Conquered nodes cannot be further modified by other radius jewels, so the choice of socket and seed is final for that build.
Two numbers drive the result. The seed (the random number on the jewel) deterministically decides what the Notable passives in radius become. The name (the leader for Heroic Tragedy, the faction for Undying Hate, shown at the end of the flavour line) decides what Keystones in radius become. A Divine Orb rerolls both the seed and the name.
Heroic Tragedy conquers for the Kalguur: each leader converts one attribute's inherent bonus into a defensive scaling (for example Strength into Energy Shield, Dexterity into Armour, Intelligence into Evasion depending on the leader), and seed 100-8000 picks the Notables. Undying Hate conquers for the Abyssals: small passives become Tribute, Notables scale with your total Tribute, and the faction name picks the Keystone (Sacrifice of Flesh/Sight/Mind/Blood/Loyalty).
Current versus legacy: the 0.4.0 patch changed Undying Hate's Tecrod 'Sacrifice of Blood' Keystone - it now grants 1 Life per second per 16 Life spent in the past 4 seconds and 20% more Life Cost of Skills (previously 8 Life per second per 8 Life spent, 50% more). Conclusions about Undying Hate keystones from 0.1 or 0.2 are invalid. There is no official PoE2 Timeless Jewel calculator yet, so verify seeds in Path of Building or the client before committing currency.
- Timeless != Time-Lost: different item, different mechanic.
- Seed (number) = Notables; Name (leader/faction) = Keystones.
- Limited to 1 Historic jewel per character.
- Conquered nodes cannot be re-modified by other radius jewels.
- Undying Hate: 0.4 changed Tecrod's Sacrifice of Blood; old conclusions invalid.
DATA TABLE
Seed and Socket Workflow
The verification workflow before buying a Timeless Jewel. Never just 'buy the same seed as the build guide' - re-verify every field.
| Step | Action | Verify |
|---|---|---|
| 1. Decide build need | Identify whether you need a Keystone conversion, Tribute scaling, or specific Notables | Match to Heroic Tragedy or Undying Hate |
| 2. Pick target socket | Choose the Jewel Socket whose Very Large radius covers the nodes you want | Confirm which small/notable/keystone nodes fall in radius |
| 3. Note nodes to keep | List nodes that must remain (or be conquered) for your build | Confirm they are inside the chosen radius |
| 4. Check seed in planner | Load the seed into Path of Building / client to preview Notable outcomes | Seed number (100-8000 or 79-30977) matches your target |
| 5. Verify the name | Confirm the leader/faction name for the Keystone you want | Name at end of flavour line is correct |
| 6. Verify socket + buy | Re-check seed, name, and socket, then purchase | All three fields confirmed before spending currency |
The same jewel name with a different seed, or the same seed in a different socket, produces a different result. Verify all three fields (seed, name, socket) every time.
VALID TARGET MATRIX
Eligibility: what a Timeless Jewel affects
A Timeless Jewel only acts on nodes inside its radius and is blocked by the single-Historic limit. Nodes outside the radius and nodes already conquered by another Historic jewel are untouched.
| Target | Normal Jewel Socket | Passives in Radius | Passives Outside Radius | Conquered by another Historic | Note |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Can be placed / is affected | Yes | Yes (Conquered) | No | No (blocked) | |
| Small passives | Held | Transformed | Untouched | Already transformed | |
| Notable passives | Held | Transformed by seed | Untouched | Already transformed | |
| Keystone passives | Held | Transformed by name | Untouched | Already transformed |
DATA TABLE
Desecration Risk (Unstable Desecration)
Undying Hate can be Desecrated up to 4 times. Official wording describes an INCREASING destruction probability - no fixed percentage is published. Treat the risk as rising with each use; do not rely on a fixed number.
| Desecrations Used | New Content | Known Risk | Recommendation |
|---|---|---|---|
| 0 | Original Timeless jewel | No extra desecration risk | Back up the tooltip before any crafting |
| 1 | First Desecrated modifier added | Risk begins; probability rises with each use (official: increasing) | Lowest-risk crafting step; safe to try |
| 2 | Second Desecrated modifier | Risk higher than at 1 (still no fixed % published) | Often the sweet spot for most builds |
| 3+ | Third / fourth Desecrated modifier | Destruction becomes a real possibility; probability keeps rising | Only push to 4 if the build strictly needs it; keep a backup |
The only official statement is that Desecration makes the item Unstable and the destruction probability increases with use. Community sample estimates exist but are NOT official; this guide does not state a fixed destruction percentage.
USE FLOW
How to use a Timeless Jewel
Acquire the jewel
Farm Olroth at Difficulty 4 for Heroic Tragedy, or Vessel of Kulemak for Undying Hate, or buy an identified copy on trade.
Choose the socket
Place it in a normal allocated Jewel Socket whose Very Large radius covers the nodes you want conquered.
Preview the seed
Load the seed into Path of Building or the client to see the Notable outcomes before committing.
Reroll if needed
Use a Divine Orb to randomise both seed and name if the current roll does not fit your build.
Desecrate (Undying Hate only)
Optionally use up to 4 Preserved Craniums to add Desecrated modifiers; this makes the jewel Unstable and raises destruction risk.
The small, notable, and keystone nodes in the chosen radius hold their original passive effects.
Those same nodes are Conquered and replaced with Kalguur or Abyssal versions decided by the seed and name.
Socket placement and the seed/name together decide the entire result; a wrong socket or seed wastes the jewel.
OUTCOME ANALYSIS
Outcomes by situation
| Scenario | Benefit | Risk | Audience | Verdict |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Build wants a specific Keystone conversion | Converts an in-radius Keystone into the leader's defensive Keystone | Low (no desecration risk) | Heroic Tragedy users | Low Pick the leader name that gives your target Keystone; roll seed for Notables. |
| Abyssal Tribute scaling build | Small passives become Tribute; Notables scale with Tribute | Medium (desecration risk if crafting) | Undying Hate users | Medium Target a seed whose Notables synergise with your Tribute total; keep a backup tooltip. |
| Crafting 4 Desecrated mods | Up to 4 custom Desecrated modifiers | High (destruction possible) | Min-maxers | High Stop at 2-3 mods unless the build needs the 4th; destruction probability rises with each use. |
| Buying without verifying | None if mismatched | High (wrong seed/name/socket) | Traders | High Always re-verify seed, name, and socket against your planner before buying. |
BUILD USAGE
Build usage
Timeless Jewels enable several distinct build shapes. Each row lists the fields you must get right and the most common mis-buy.
Because only one Historic jewel is allowed, pick the shape that matches your build's core need before spending currency.
Keystone Enabler (Heroic Tragedy)
Uses the leader name to convert an in-radius Keystone into a defensive conversion. Depends on name, not seed, for the Keystone; seed picks Notables. Cannot be replaced by a cheap version if you need the exact Keystone.
↗Small Passive Scaling (Undying Hate)
Every small passive in radius becomes +5 Tribute (and +3 attribute Tribute). Scales with how many small nodes you conquer. Cheap seeds can work if you only need Tribute bulk.
↗Notable Transformation
Seed decides Notables that scale with Tribute (Undying Hate) or become Kalguur notables (Heroic Tragedy). The exact Notables vary wildly by seed; verify in planner.
↗Desecrated Modifier Build
Adds 1-4 Desecrated modifiers via Preserved Cranium. Highest power but carries Unstable Desecration risk; most builds stop at 2-3 mods.
↗High-budget Min-max
Pays for a perfect seed plus 3-4 Desecrated mods. Requires verifying seed, name, socket, AND desecration outcome before committing.
↗ALTERNATIVES
Alternatives
A normal Jewel (Magic/Rare) gives its own modifiers without conquering nodes; it is the alternative when you do not want to transform radius passives. Time-Lost Jewels also affect nodes in radius but are a different item with a different modifier pool - do not confuse them with Timeless Jewels.
Other Unique jewels (The Adorned, From Nothing, Controlled Metamorphosis, Megalomaniac, Voices) provide their own socket or tree mechanics and do not conquer radius passives the way a Timeless Jewel does.
If you only need a single Keystone that already exists on the tree, a Timeless Jewel's transformation may be unnecessary; reserve it for when you want a converted or themed Keystone and Notable set.
- Normal / Magic / Rare jewel: own modifiers, no conquest.
- Time-Lost Jewel: different item, different pool - not a Timeless Jewel.
- Other Unique jewels: different mechanics, not radius conquest.
USE / SELL / HOLD
Valuation: use, sell, or hold
For builds that want a converted Keystone or Tribute scaling, a well-seeded Timeless Jewel is a core enable.
RISK ANALYSIS
Risk and failure cost
| Scenario | Gain | Loss | Risk | Recommendation |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Buying a seed without verifying in planner | A Timeless Jewel for your build | Mismatched Notables; wasted currency | High | Always preview the seed in Path of Building or the client before buying. |
| Desecrating Undying Hate to 4 mods | Up to 4 custom Desecrated modifiers | Increasing chance the jewel is destroyed | High | Stop at 2-3 mods unless the build strictly needs the 4th; keep a backup tooltip. |
| Assuming 0.1/0.2 keystone conclusions | None | Wrong build plan based on outdated keystone values | Medium | Use only 0.5.4 client/planner data; the 0.4 Undying Hate change invalidated old values. |
| Using two Historic jewels | None (blocked) | Wasted socket; only 1 Historic allowed | Low | Plan around a single Timeless Jewel per character. |
COMMUNITY EVIDENCE
Community evidence
What is the difference between a Timeless Jewel and a Time-Lost Jewel?
Players confuse the two because both affect radius nodes; they are separate item bases.
A Timeless Jewel is a Unique Historic jewel that conquers and replaces radius passives with themed versions; a Time-Lost Jewel is a different base that modifies nodes in radius with its own pool. They are not interchangeable.
Timeless and Time-Lost are distinct items; do not apply Time-Lost conclusions to Timeless Jewels.
Why did my same-named Heroic Tragedy give different Notables?
A player bought a jewel with the right leader name but the Notables were wrong for their build.
The leader name decides the Keystone; the seed number decides the Notables. Two jewels with the same name but different seeds produce different Notables.
Seed decides Notables, name decides Keystones - verify both before buying.
Can my Undying Hate be destroyed by Desecration?
Players ask whether Desecration can brick the jewel.
Desecration makes Undying Hate Unstable. The official wording describes an increasing destruction probability with each Desecration; no fixed percentage is published. Risk rises with each use (up to 4).
Desecration raises the chance of destruction; only an increasing probability is officially described, not a fixed number.
Is the 0.4 Undying Hate keystone change important for my build?
A video covered the 0.4 Tecrod Sacrifice of Blood change.
Patch 0.4.0 changed Tecrod's Sacrifice of Blood to 1 Life/sec per 16 Life spent in the past 4 seconds and 20% more Life Cost of Skills (was 8s/8 Life, 50% more). Old 0.1/0.2 conclusions about this Keystone are invalid.
Use only current 0.5.4 values for Undying Hate keystones.
PROBLEMS & DIRECT ANSWERS
Problems and direct answers
My Timeless Jewel did nothing when socketed
Direct answer: A Timeless Jewel only affects nodes inside its Very Large radius. If the socket's radius covers no useful nodes, you see little change. Also remember only one Historic jewel is allowed.
- Check which nodes fall inside the radius and confirm no other Historic jewel is already equipped.
I bought the same name but got different Notables
Direct answer: The name decides the Keystone; the seed decides the Notables. A different seed means different Notables even with the same name.
- Verify the seed number in a planner before buying; do not rely on name alone.
Desecrating Undying Hate feels risky
Direct answer: Desecration makes the jewel Unstable and the chance of destruction increases with each use. No fixed percentage is published; only an increasing probability is officially described.
- Back up the tooltip, and consider stopping at 2-3 Desecrated mods.
Old guides say different keystone values
Direct answer: Conclusions from 0.1 or 0.2 about Undying Hate keystones are invalid after the 0.4.0 change. Use current 0.5.4 client/planner data.
- Re-verify keystone values against the live client before building around them.
video
Video walkthrough
Community creator
Timeless Jewels explained (PoE2 0.5)
What to watch for: Covers Heroic Tragedy vs Undying Hate, seed/name mechanics, radius conquest, desecration risk, the 0.4 keystone change, and build usage.
Open source ↗MEDIA GALLERY
Media gallery
Shows the Remembering line that drives seed and Keystone.
Shows the defilement seed and Unstable Desecration.
Visualises which nodes are conquered.
Confirms seed decides Notables.
Shows added Desecrated modifiers and Unstable state.
The drop source for Undying Hate.
PATCH HISTORY
Patch history
Timeless Jewels remain Historic Unique jewels: Heroic Tragedy from Olroth D4, Undying Hate from Vessel of Kulemak, both with Very Large radius and the seed/name conquest system.
Undying Hate's Tecrod 'Sacrifice of Blood' Keystone changed to 1 Life/sec per 16 Life spent in past 4s and 20% more Life Cost of Skills (was 8s/8 Life, 50% more). Old keystone conclusions invalidated.
Undying Hate gained the 'Unstable Desecration' keyword: using Preserved Cranium has a chance to destroy the item, rising with desecration count.
Timeless Jewel base type introduced to the game.
SOURCES & VERIFICATION
Sources and verification
Path of Exile 2 0.5.4 patch notes and in-game Timeless Jewel text.
PoE2Wiki and poe2db data for Timeless Jewel, Heroic Tragedy, and Undying Hate.
timelessjewelcalculator.online and GameRant walkthroughs on seeds, names, and drops.
Reddit r/PathOfExile2 discussion of seeds, desecration, and destroyed jewels.
Community video explaining seed/name, desecration, and the 0.4 change.
changelog
Changelog
- Initial publication covering the current 0.5.4 Timeless Jewel family: Heroic Tragedy vs Undying Hate comparison, seed/name mechanics, the Seed and Socket Workflow, the Desecration Risk table (increasing probability only, no fixed %), the 0.4 keystone change, and build usage.
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